S2 Ep4: Your Virtual Challenge Survival Guide
SHOW NOTES
The 2022 Run Against Violence Virtual Challenge is fast approaching. So in this episode, we explore how to not only survive but thrive during the challenge with our guests; run coach Lyndal Maloney from Serotonin Running, busy mum and business owner Tara Edwards and the Silver category age record holder, Judith Dear who is a spritely 79 years of age.
Also in this episode:
Meet Dean from Mount Gambier who shares details of the park run takeover planned for Saturday 30 July,
meet Karen from Serotonin Running in our Team Spotlight.
You can support the efforts of Run Against Violence by donating at https://www.runagainstviolence.com/donate
If you or someone close to you is experiencing family violence, please talk to someone. You can call 1800 RESPECT (Australia only) if you would like to talk to a professional service or if there is an immediate threat to safety call the police on Triple Zero (000) (Australia only).
THE RAV PODCAST IS ALSO AVAILABLE AT
TRANSCRIPT
Jen: So welcome back. This is the fourth episode in the 2022 season. And it is just over a month until the Virtual Challenge kicks off.
Jen: So a few weeks ago, Kirrily Dear, the co-founder of RAV and I were discussing topics for the podcast. And she mentioned a few things. Firstly, that one of the biggest concerns she hears from people who are new to the challenge, who like me are doing it for the first time, is that perhaps they're too told. They're too unfit. They're not an athlete. They're too time-poor. Like they've got too much on their plate with work and family, and don't think they've got the time to do this. And the other thing she mentioned is that she often hears experienced RAVer's, so people who have done the challenge in the past, swear that next year they're gonna do things differently next year. They're gonna train for it and prepare properly.
Jen: So in this conversation, I thought we would tackle all of those challenges and concerns. Plus the fact that as I've mentioned in previous episodes, this is my first Virtual Challenge. And I've committed to go for silver, which is 130 kilometres, and I'm a little time poor and a little injured.
Jen: So I, I have some concerns about it. And I know I'm not the only one. So I wanted to use this episode to chat to a few, a few people who could help us figure it all out.
Jen: And they are, first up you'll hear from running coach Lyndal Maloney from Serotonin Runners. I call her, pick her brain about how I can get this done. And I know she's got lots of tips that will help you too.
Jen: Then you are going to hear from the current age record holder in the silver category, that's for 130 kilometres or more. Her name is Judith Dear. She is a spritely 79 years old. And if the surname sounds familiar, yes that's because she is Kirrily's mum.
Jen: Then finally, you're going to hear from busy mum, Tara Edwards, from Heart and Soul Running on her best advice on how you can not only survive the Virtual Challenge, but thrive. Let's go.
Jen: Coach Lindel how are you? I'm really well.
Lyndal: Thanks, Jen. How are you?
Jen: I am good. Um, so we are four weeks out from the start of this Virtual Challenge that I have been talked into doing it and I am freaking out a bit as you know, I'm time-poor. We'll be doing two podcast episodes a week during the challenge. So that's gonna be interesting. And I'm carrying a bit of an injury. What advice do you have for me? Like, have I left it too late?
Lyndal: Uh, well, as you said, we still have four weeks to go. And I think you can use that four weeks wisely by planning them out, looking at the time that you have got to get some training in to get ready for it.
Lyndal: Obviously if you're carrying an injury, you need to be, I guess, chatting with your health provider or your physio, or whoever's helping you manage that injury, to get a plan together to help get you through that. But of course, it can be done. Um, it's all about planning and doing a lot of things throughout the process and throughout the challenge to help you get to the end of the challenge. So, no, you haven't left it too late. Um, but we can talk through some things to help get you through the challenge.
Jen: Okay. That's good to know. Good to know. It would be terrible if the podcast host for the RAV challenge cannot finish the RAV challenge. So what do I need to be thinking about over the next four weeks? Like, what are some of the things we need to take into account when planning this?
Lyndal: Okay. So I guess you said you’re time-poor. So perhaps sitting down and looking at how much time you've got to dedicate to training over the next four weeks. So sit down and work that out. Have a look at the, what you can actually do with your, um, so is it walking, is it running? Is it a little bit of both, and work out a plan to see what time you have got and nut that out for the next four weeks. And you can do that with someone. If you need help with that, you can sit down and talk to your teammates who are in your team with you and work out what everyone else is doing as well.
Lyndal: And what else have you got going on in your life that may impact your training? So factor that in as well, which might be, like you said, you are gonna be busy putting out to podcasts each week, which is pretty time-consuming. What other work that you've got? Any other commitments and factor those into your plan?
Lyndal: And your injury. That's gonna have a major impact on what you can do now and leading up to the challenge. How are you going to manage that? Which is gonna be your most important thing.
Jen: That's a very good question.
Lyndal: So are you in a Pacemaker or a RAVhead team?
Jen: Oh, my God. Now you're testing me. I'm in a team of 20, well, it's gonna be 20,
Lyndal: So you're a pacemaker.
Jen: Thank you. Thank you. I'm a pacemaker. I should know the answer to that question. Uh, so pacemaker, but we have some ambitious goals. Let's face it. We have some ultra runners in our group, so they will go for it. So we have ambitious goals as a team and I have committed to doing the silver challenge. So that's 130 Ks, which may be a bit ambitious, but what the heck?
Lyndal: So you are looking at 50 Ks a week, which is, uh, 6.8 kilometres a day. Okay. Yeah, obviously we wouldn't break it down into seven days a week of 6.8 kilometres a day.
Lyndal: So it's pretty big. Now you need to be thinking about what you are actually doing in terms of training. Because if you go from zero to 6.8 kilometres a day, then it's maybe not going to work out very well for you. So it's always good to start with the numbers, look at what you have to achieve, and the best way that you can do that's gonna fit in with your life.
Jen: Yeah, actually, that's a really good point you raise is that I know in my team and a few others who are new to the challenge as well, we probably haven't had that conversation about a), what the goal is for the team or b) what our individual goals are. And probably c) kind of set that expectation within our team that we're not expecting everybody to do the same amount of kilometres during the challenge.
Jen: Like, I'm sure we've got people in the team and, and it might even be me who end up doing, you know, two kilometres, four kilometres a day because of injury or being time poor or whatever other reason. And that's okay because the team will... the expectation and the understanding is that the team will rally...
Lyndal: Exactly yeah.
Jen: And support each other. So that's probably an important conversation to have, I think.
Lyndal: Yeah, and we're probably getting ahead of ourselves now, but that's the beauty of the team is that you have a mixed bag of athletes. And some will do a whole lot more than others, but as long as you have that team goal, and you also have your individual goal and you've planned that out. Then when we get to the end of the challenge and maybe things haven't worked out as well as they could have for you. And you're not quite going to get the kilometres, it doesn't matter because your team has, um, you know, everyone will rally at the end to get the Ks done, um, in my experience anyway, and really at the end of it all, it doesn't matter if you don't hit your target because you will as a team. And I guess the purpose of the challenge is the more important thing, the whole big picture. So yeah, that's the reason why we're doing it. Yeah.
Jen: That's so true. It's interesting coming into this, like endurance sports are such a solo sport, but this is such a different dynamic. It's really interesting.
Lyndal: I think that's the beauty of it too. We're so used to running ultras as in a solo event, but doing it this way, yeah, it gives you a different perspective.
Jen: Definitely. Yeah. Okay. So we've got four weeks. I'm gonna plan it out. Look at my time available, manage the injury, all those sorts of bits during the challenge, like during those magical 19 days that I keep hearing about. Because this is my first challenge. I didn't mention that earlier. What do I need to focus on?
Lyndal: Okay. Um, step one. So I like everything planned out. So you've got 19 days. Yep. So I'd sit down, have a calendar with those 19 days and know exactly when you are going to do your distances, your runs, your walks.
Lyndal: Now that will probably fall apart because life happens. At least if you know that you have got that in place, that plan in place, you've got a schedule to stick to, and then that just takes the pressure off you straight away. This is how I'm going to get to this goal
Lyndal: Make sure you factor in some rest days. So if you're going into this challenge and you haven't been doing your 50 kilometres a week, and you try to get stuck into that 50 Ks, make sure you're factoring in some rest days okay? Rest days aren't necessarily lying on the couch, watching Netflix all day.
Jen: Bugger.
Lyndal: Yep. Um, they are days when you are not doing part of this, your runs and your walks, but you might be doing other things to help you recover. So probably thinking about your recovery strategies.
Jen: Yeah. Swimming for me would be one of them, I think.
Lyndal: Okay, fantastic. So a little bit of cross-training. Yep.
Jen: Sleep?
Lyndal: Yep. Lots of sleep. Again, if you're time-poor, sleep can be hard to get on top of, but sleep's the best recovery tool you can use.
Lyndal: Hydration. So making sure that you're really thinking about drinking fluids throughout the day, um, sometimes we can get busy and we just forget our hydration. And again, that's a really important thing for recovery as well as just maintaining our metabolism and keeping us feeling good.
Lyndal: Um, nutrition, good food.
Jen: Oh yeah.
Lyndal: Yeah, yeah. We need to eat. We need to fuel what we're doing fuel. So really thinking about upping what you're eating again. If you're not used to doing this workload, then you are burning more fuel. So obviously you need to think about your regular eating and eating good food.
Lyndal: And gentle stretching foam rolling. You know, there's lots of stuff on YouTube that you can follow just to do nice routines to help with your muscle recovery.
Jen: Good idea.
Lyndal: Your feet. Yeah. So again, going into this challenge, you really have to be thinking about looking after your feet. In terms of your shoe choice, maybe you'll develop some blisters again, if you're not used to this so how are you going to deal with that? Uh, what else?
Jen: Good excuse for a massage too. I suspect, I think so.
Lyndal: Why not? Yeah. Why not?
Jen: It's interesting how we take on this challenge, like, uh, some of us were more enthusiastic about being talked into it, doing it than others. But it comes with this whole other decision-making process, lots of other things to consider that you don't necessarily consider when you commit to doing it.
Lyndal: Yes. It's like, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Yeah.
Jen: It sounds like fun. Let's do that. And then you go, oh my God, I have to think about sleep.
Jen: So you're a coach and I know you've worked with a lot of people who have done the Virtual Challenge before, which is why I wanted to pick your brain today. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see people make around or related to the challenge?
Lyndal: Probably trying to go too hard too soon. Of course, the experienced runners can go out and do the 65 Ks for their team in the weekend, which is awesome. And we all get inspired by that. It's really great to see, but if you're not trained for that or you try to go and do you know the biggest chunk of your kilometres at the start and your body's not ready for it then that's the end of the challenge for you.
Jen: Oh, that would so be something I would do yeah.
Lyndal: And it's a challenge that's meant to be something that's hard to do. But yeah, some runners will, some athletes will go too gung-ho at the start just to try to knock off as many kilometres as they can. You've got a couple of weeks to do this, so yeah take your time. Enjoy it.
Jen: That's a good point. Actually someone said to me the other day, use your incidental exercise time too. Like, so if you can get off the bus, one stop early. Get off the train, one stop early. Um, take walking meetings, you know, have your meetings have to be out walking, a lap of the block or rather than sitting in your chair, like actually use that additional time so that it doesn't. To almost make it easier for yourself.
Lyndal: Yeah. You see those kilometres just add up when you are doing things like that.
Jen: Okay. So last question. When I start freaking out and stressing that I'm not gonna get my kilometres done and I'm gonna let my team down, which I'm team captain, so that really gets under my skin, what advice do you have for me? What should I remember?
Lyndal: Probably what we touched on before, which is firstly thinking about why you're doing it. So it's really not about us as individuals. It's about us as a team. And the reason why we are doing this challenge is to raise awareness for family violence.
Lyndal: So remember that you're in a team and your team will rally. So it's important to communicate with your team that maybe I'm not gonna get these kilometres done. Can someone help me out? And you will find no doubt that your team will rally together and, um, help get those extra kilometres done with you as the team. Yeah. So no pressure, it's a group thing, not really an individual thing, even though you have your individual goals. So do it together.
Lyndal: That's great advice. That is great advice. All right. Is there anything else I need to think about or do I just need to go and start planning and doing this very smartly?
Lyndal: Yeah, I think you've got this, Jen. I think if you, yeah, do what we talked about. As I said, I like to plan and I like to have it all down on paper. And that'll just take the pressure off you. But of course, you need to, if you haven't started doing anything, you need to get started today, even if it's just a 30 minute walk around the block. Yep. Just get started.
Jen: Okay, coach Lyndal I will do that today. Actually, what I will also do today is I'm going to look at my calendar for the challenge, during the challenge, and actually block it into my calendar. Now my exercise time, because I find if it's in my calendar, I will do it. If it's not in my calendar, I can, um, I can more easily talk myself out of it, which won't happen during the challenge, obviously.
Jen: Cause we've got that little internal pressure to get it done, but I will block it out in now and I'll talk to my podiatrist about my foot injury and I'll, I'm gonna book that massage now. So I have something to look forward to
Lyndal: Outstanding. sounds. Like a plan, Jen.
Jen: Excellent. Thank you so much, Lyndal.
Lyndal: My pleasure.
Jen: Judith, welcome to the podcast.
Judith: Oh, thank you very much.
Jen: Your daughter Kirrily is very, very popular amongst this community.
Judith: Yes, I oh, she's popular with me too.
Jen: oh, I love it. I love it. So. I know that you hold the current aged record for the silver category, which is 130 kilometres in the RAV challenge. Tell me the idea of participating in the Virtual Challenge. Was that your idea or was it something that Kirrily suggested to you?
Jen: Well, she suggested that to encourage me to participate. So I suppose, yes, it was purely who encouraged me to do this?
Jen: Ah, she does that a lot actually. She encouraged me as well.
Judith: Oh, right. Fair enough.
Jen: So when you agreed to sign up, did you have any idea of how far you would be able to do or were you a bit worried about how much you might be able to do?
Judith: Well the previous year, I, did set a bar for myself what to do. I think I put down 50 kilometres and I went above that. So last year I thought, well, I'll have a go at the 130 and I achieved that and I actually walked 170 for the year. So this year, I think I might just still stick 130 and see where I go.
Jen: Oh, 200 might be calling.
Judith: Oh no, no. We'll have to think about that one.
Jen: Now I know from talking to Kirrily in the past, she had said to me that you would not call yourself an athlete.
Judith: No, definitely not.
Jen: Had you done anything like this before in the past?
Judith: No, not at all.
Jen: And so one of the common concerns that we hear of for people doing the challenge is that they're either too old or too unfit to participate in the Virtual Challenge. What would you say to that? How would you answer that? If someone said that to you?
Judith: I don't think you get too old. I think what you'll have to do is actually do it in stages. To achieve the seven kilometres a day, which was the bar that I set, I would sometimes do four kilometres in the morning and three in the afternoon.
Judith: I wouldn't probably do the whole seven kilometres at once. I might do six at once and then do one in the afternoon. I wouldn't try and do it all at once. So I sort of pace myself. I worked out how many kilometres I need to do in a day. My husband, Kirrily's father, down in our bottom paddock, he took the tractor around and made me a track.
Judith: Then I would walk around and around and around that track and then up past the house, out on the dirt road, out the front, and then do it all again, because I wasn't interested in, I don't know, getting too close to people at that point of time. This year, it might be a little bit easier, cause everyone's a bit more relaxed about the COVID thing, but I still will be both doing the track down a bottom paddock as I did last year.
Jen: That's great, I love that. You've got your own track and I love that you found a way to do it that works for you. That suits you.
Judith: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Well, in all I would listen to a story on my earphones, which I'd download from the library. Just keep on walking.
Jen: I love that. I love that. And so if there's someone listening to this who does think that they're too old or that they, you know, they're too unfit to start, they're not an athlete, they've never done something like this before in their lives. What would you say to them?
Judith: Oh, have a go. Yes. By all means, you don't have to set yourself a target of the 130. You can set yourself a target of less than that. And if you get towards target, well, then take a little bit further. The first year you do it, I think perhaps if you just relax with it more, achieve what you've set yourself as a goal, but don't go beyond that if you don't feel comfortable at doing that. If you feel comfortable, take those extra few steps and see what works out.
Jen: Mm. Great advice. I'm doing my first challenge. So I'm gonna take that advice on board. Now, can I ask you a personal question, which I know traditionally, we don't ask women. Um, how many, if you're okay with disclosing, how many years young are you?
Judith: I'm 79. I'm 80 November.
Jen: Oh, wow. Judith, you are going to be my inspiration for this challenge. Whenever I struggle to get my butt outta bed or out the door, I am gonna think of you.
Judith: Oh, you're more than welcome
Jen: Tara, welcome to the podcast.
Tara: Thank you so much, Jen.
Jen: So the virtual challenge is fast approaching. I know you work, you have a business and you have kids and I'm sure you have lots of other responsibilities on your plate. And there are many people listening to this who I'm sure can relate. So how do you specifically prepare for, or train for the challenge? Like what do you do to get ready for this thing?
Tara: Uh, well, firstly, I probably look at what days are the challenges incorporated? And then I try and work out what my schedule is. So I fit in a lot of runs and walks around my children's sport training. So for example, I get a five or a six K run in, in the afternoons when my son does footy training and I incorporate parkrun, which I absolutely love.
Tara: And yeah, just really finding time in the day to make the most of it, you know,
Jen: So that's the same for training as for the Virtual Challenge or are there certain things you do during the challenge itself to get the extra distances in or squeeze it all in?
Tara: I think the first year when Kirrily hosted this event, I think I looked the days and I separated the kilometres up to each day. So I could really mentally prepare to head out for those particular kilometres. I think now, you know, it's shifted a lot since we moved to Tasmania. Things have changed here. For example, I don't have running buddies down here necessarily.
Tara: So it's a matter of me being a little bit more disciplined in getting out when I can. Yeah, as I said, like in the training, I walk my daughter to school every Wednesday because I'm fortunate to have Wednesdays off. So any little opportunity that I get, I put my watch on and I start counting that. Very lucky to live in Tasmania with all its beautiful trails. So this year I am hoping to incorporate a long hike on the weekend, and take hubby along with me.
Jen: Oh, beautiful. And I love to, you just made me think that I, for example, never record the incidental walking. Like I only ever record my air quote "training sessions". But I should just wear my watch the whole time and anytime like I'm walking to the train station or around town or even at the shops, I could sneakily use that as part of my distance as well.
Tara: Yeah. I think it's just thinking outside the box, and combining what you're already doing with what you can fit in, if that makes sense. So, you know, when I was in Sydney, for instance, my son was doing soccer training, so I actually ran around the field and made that for eight kilometres. So it's just a matter of outside the box and trying to fit it in when you can.
Jen: Yeah. That's a good idea. So how many times have you done the Virtual Challenge now?
Tara: So I've actually, I think there was one year that I missed.
Jen: So if there's one mistake you think you've made in those three or four times you've done the Virtual Challenge, what would you say that was?
Tara: Underestimating my time.
Jen: So underestimating, how much time you had or the time it took to do the distances?
Tara: I think it's a matter of relaxing and not thinking too much of how many days you've got to cover it in. So it's thinking, oh yeah, I'll do my five kilometres today. And then for whatever reason, you get held up and I'll do the 10 Ks tomorrow, and then life gets busy, as you say, with work and business and kids. And then you've got the normal stuff on top of that. I think the biggest downfall that anyone can get into is just feeling like they've got all the time in the world and then trying to catch up on that.
Jen: The cram session, but yeah, it's not, it's not school exams we're cramming for anymore. It's distances and kilometres.
Tara: And then I think you also will lose the enjoyment sometimes as well. Just going out and really putting pressure on yourself to get certain amount of kilometres done. So I think it's really important to step out the front door, and just go out and enjoy the day.
Tara: Or make it different and run or walk at nighttime when you normally don't. It's just a matter of getting some excitement and enjoyment out of what you're doing and the cause behind it.
Jen: All right. One last question. So I can get you let you get back to the kids. What advice do you have for someone who is listening to this, who either is thinking of doing the challenge but not over the line yet, or has signed up and is now starting to wonder how on earth, what the hell they've signed up for and how on earth they're supposed to fit it in?
Tara: Oh my gosh. Just do it sign up. It's so much fun. The running community is one of the best communities that I've ever been involved in. There are so many supportive people that will support you the entire journey of your running and who knows, you might fall in absolute love with it and find all the benefits that come with it.
Tara: If you've signed up and you're a bit nervous, don't be. Just remember to look at those different pockets of opportunity where you can get in, walk the dog, take the kids out. There's a moment of sunshine, walk around the block, make it a personal challenge. And one of the things that I've really learned is not to take yourself and life too seriously. So have a bit of fun with it whilst you're raising awareness and, just enjoy being out there. I promise you it will help with your mental health.
Jen: Mm, very true, great advice. Thank you so much. I'm doing my first Virtual Challenge, so I'm gonna take some notes now.
Tara: Uh, look, you'll never regret getting out the front door and running a walk. It's really the best way to look after yourself and with self-care, put some music on, listen to an audiobook. You've got many different options. And of course, if you signed up, nudge your friend, grab your friend and go, hey, come along for the ride.
Jen: Well, I don't know about you, but I took quite a few notes then. And how amazing is Kirrily's mum? She is going to be my inspiration to get my butt out the door during the challenge. So if you want to join the RAV challenge, don't forget that registrations are now open and will be up until the second week of the challenge, which is in September, but I'm sure you don't wanna wait that long. So make sure you register your team and organise a few friends to join you now. And if you don't have a team, but still wanna be involved, you can go to the RAV website, register on the site. And the amazing team behind the scenes at RAV will find you a team to join.
Jen: So this coming weekend, Saturday, the 30th of July, the team at Mount Gambier have decided to do a Parkrun takeover, and wanna encourage you to do the same at your local parkrun. So here to tell us all about it is Dean. He is from the team called the Waddling Ducks based out of Mount Gambier. He's also a parkrun run director, and he's here to tell you all about it.
Dean: Hi, I'm Dean and I'm one of seven park run directors at Mount Gambier. And I'm also taken part in Run Against Violence for the last two years in the team Waddling Ducks. Now, I think that name's offensive. I think we're much better than that. However we are another year old and I think maybe it's starting to fit.
Dean: Mount Gambier parkrun, a great spot to be. We run around the blue lake. It's not a shoreline run. This is a volcanic crater. So we're up a hill, down a hill and back again. I'd been involved for about 10 years with Lifeline. And I took multiple calls from women who'd been in abusive relationships, mostly women. And I really feel felt I needed to do something which would be on the helpful side of things, um, wanted to be part of the change. So yeah, I got involved with Running Against Violence.
Dean: So Parkrun takeover, yes we've got 11 volunteers. I think it is who will all be dressed in their paraphernalia. So we will be obvious on the day even if we can't spruik the cause people can ask us and, and find out. And what else? I like too is the fact that we can enter Run Against Violence as a parkrun team. So that will be present all year round. People will surely ask at some point throughout the year. Put your name down for Run Against Violence team. And if at all possible, do a takeover on the 30th of July like we are in Mount Gambier
Jen: Finally in each episode, we're going to highlight one of the amazing teams who are participating in the challenge this year. To wrap up today's episode. I thought it was only appropriate that we have Karen from Serotonin Running. Welcome Karen.
Karen: So I'm Karen and I live in the Blue Mountains and what I love about the Blue Mountains is obviously our beautiful landscape, but we have all the beautiful tracks and trails right there in our doorstep. I've been here 18 years now, and I'm still not tired of it.
Karen: And I think more importantly, what I love about here is the community and the running community. So I'm mainly a walker but I'm embraced by the running community cause I tag along. Our team, we are largely based in Springwood so most of us are from this area. Most of us are part of Serotonin Running. We do have a couple of people in Scotland who in past years have been part of the Springwood branch.
Karen: And I guess we came together because of the message and the mission that RAV has. We're all a family. We're either parents or we're part of your natural family, we're grandparents. And I think that the message is something we would all like to see happen. And we probably don't talk about it amongst our families. So it's the knowledge that we need to lift the stigma. We need to help people to be able to open up and talk.
Karen: So how did we get started? I think technically we've been part of it from the start unwittingly. Julia who's now in Scotland happened to be one day track wearing a RAV shirt from the very first event that Kirrily did.
Karen: And I remember asking her at track. Oh, what's that? Because obviously it said family violence. It was of interest to me and we got chatting. So it started the conversation. And then I actually went online and bought a shirt, not realising that RAV was going to be an ongoing thing. So the following year, when I saw it come up, I went, we have to do this. So I put it to the team and everyone kind of went oh, yeah, that sounds great. And sort of step back a little bit. And so I just thought, well, I brought it to you, so I'll sort of step in. I was really anxious about getting started and I realised it actually wasn't hard to do. Every people wanted to do it.
Karen: People were, you know, pinging, ping, ping, ping. The hands were going up. People wanted to do it. And I loved that. I think the first year was 2018. We made mistakes and we learned from it. And the following year we learned we needed to balance our team. So we all finished together each year. It's just growing and yes, some people drop out for family commitments.
Karen: But the thing I find is afterwards, there's a real high amongst the group. And I think it's comes from a) we get together and we're doing something together, but it's the message. And I think we really love that. We feel that we've put ourselves out there to help people that wouldn't ordinarily maybe step up and do it.
Karen: And then I notice also, there's never just one thing I notice. The other thing I notice is that the following the next year, the new people are amongst the first to put their hands up to do it again that next year. So I love that as well. Then I guess personally, what I love about RAV is that people do find their own voice. On the RAV community page, you have these people telling their stories and they're opening up and it's possibly the first time they've opened up and they're either opening up to people they know, or complete strangers, but they find that platform to do that. And that makes me happy. And I think, yeah, what Kirrily has done is a really beautiful thing.
Karen: Sorry, being emotional. . But yeah, we love it. We love it as a team. We have a lot of fun, but at the same time, we always know what their message is and what we are doing and why we're doing it as well. And we've got a lot of boys this year as well. So we've got a lot of husbands. So I'm excited about that.